velo dog pistol value

Velo-Dog. The bottom loop of the trigger kept hitting my knuckle just as the gun fired, throwing off my aim. Your email address will not be published. Some models were double action and had concealed hammers while others were single action and required cocking before firing. The name is a compound word composed of "velocipede" and "dog". In use from 1868-1925, this mark was used to show a single final proof with loads designed for temporary or provisional proof. Showing 1-36 of 126 results. You have entered an incorrect email address! probably. In the last 12 months there is great demand for a Galand Velo-Dog Revolver and most handguns. Let me start by pointing out that some of the research cited by sck, above, supports the fact that to be a true Velo-Dog revolver it must be chambered for the Velo-Dog cartridge: This just illustrates that Wikipedia is pointless. Unloaded it weighs a mere 7.9 ounces, with an overall length of 5-1/4 and a 1-3/4 barrel. Learn More{{/message}}, {{#message}}{{{message}}}{{/message}}{{^message}}It appears your submission was successful. The checkered horn grips are undamaged. It may not display this or other websites correctly. SKU: 22050052. The Nylon 66, a relatively inexpensive rimfire with faux woodgrain, was the first successful synthetic-stock firearm. The design incorporated a very small size, along with a DAO design with an enclosed hammer and a folding trigger without the presence of a trigger guard. AROSTEGUI, EULOGIO > Velo-Dog. They were originally developed by Charles-FranoisGalandand his sonRen. A string of five shots yielded an average velocity of 430fps. ONLY TWO DEFINING FORCES HAVE GIVEN UP THEIR LIVES FOR YOU. DWM Model 1893 Borchardt Semi Auto Pistol (AH8173) $26,500.00 Serial number 1865. Surviving examples vary considerably in appearance. It appears to be a 25 ACP Velo-Dog Revolver. This Velo Dog Model is equipped with a 1.7" barrel, fixed sights, wood grip, and a steel frame. Belgian Velo Dog revolver (mainspring) Hand Guns Forum | Numrich Forum > Hand Guns > Hand Guns > Belgian Velo Dog revolver (mainspring) Belgian Velo Dog revolver (mainspring) Numrich Gun Parts Corporation 226 Williams Ln. For this reason, my website includes both calibers as legitimate velo dog charges, though the 6,35 might be considered 'second generation'. In 1893, Charles designed an 8mm hammerless pocket revolver he marketed as the Tue Tue. Colt Baby Open Top .22 cal Revolver. Antique Pistols. Misc. New in box - 100% condition in unopened box. The action works well. See Sold Price. It may even be a smoothbore "shotgun." Looking at the hammer and firing pin, one might tell whether it's a center-fire or a rimfire cartridge. The Velo-Dog (also known as a Revolver de Poche [1]) was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Ren Galand, son of Charles-Franois Galand in the late 19th-century as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks. In 1997, Casull Arms introduced an updated and very well made version of the Velo-Dog revolver style in .22 LR, the Model CA2000. Some are very ornate and include beautiful hard or soft wood grips and engravings. VELO-DOG REVOLVER 5.5mm Gun Firearms PHOTO CARD Cyclists Defense Against Dogs. Chambered for the 6.35 Velo Dog cartridge. The most prolific production was from the turn of the 20th century to World War I. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. velo dog pistol value. Many times, owners loaded cork, cayenne pepper or wax bullets as a less-than-lethal dog deterrent. Number 1. The name combined the words Velocipede (bicycle) and Dog; his thought was that cyclists could use the revolver to discourage dogs that plagued them. This is pretty labor-intensive, but you can produce small numbers this way without too much of a problem. The Velo Dog | An Official Journal Of The NRA Explore The NRA Universe Of Websites Quick Links NRA.ORG Manage Your Membership NRA Near You Friends of NRA State and Federal Gun Laws NRA Online. (7mm & 9mm). The barrel and cylinder still retain some of their original bluing, and the frame is color-case hardened, though little of the color remains. Briefly, the Velo-Dog was a fairly powerful .22 caliber center fire cartridge made to allow people riding bicycles ("velocipedes") to protect themselves from attacks by dogs, hence the "velo-dog" name. The five-charge drum of this revolver has oval valleys on the side surface and grooves for . Reloading dies are available, though they are rather more expensive than more common calibers. The name is a compound word composed of "velocipede" and "dog".The hammer is shrouded to avoid its snagging on clothing, so the weapon is double action only.All have short barrels and originally fired the 5.75 mm (.22 calibre) Velo . The name is a portmanteau of "velocipede" and "dog". While not being very powerful the light weight and small size of the Velo-Dog revolvers, with a typical barrel length of just under 2 inches, made them ideal weapons for non-cyclists who wanted a small, concealable pistol. Double action with internal hammer and manual safety. The finish is a nice smooth brown patina. The number 6851 is stamped on the top flat of the barrel. $2,450.00. Made in Belgium. Many of these revolvers were the Busso or hump-back pattern, with the concealed hammer covered by a squared-off rear end of the frame, usually with a safety lever on the left side that locked the folding trigger. The short 2-inch barrel on the bicycle model certainly made it easier to carry in a pocket while the legs were vigorously pumping pedals. They will be prominently marked Galand Paris or Galand Liege.. That is one of the issues that reporter that was posted here on a thread about fake news stated. The Velo-Dog was designed to be used in defence against wild dog attacks when the user was on a bicycle. There are even people who call every handgun a revolver, even if it's a semi-auto. Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297. Velo-Dogs were commonly equipped with either a yoke-mounted ejector, though more advanced models offered break-open tip-up or down ejection. Find Gun Values | Grading System | Login Back. They all are pocket size. Kingston, NY 12401 Phone: 866.686.7424 Fax: 877.486.7278 The intended usage was even more explicit in Europe. Bicycles could not be bothered to carry a large firearm for self-defense and to keep revolver as small as possible, Galand designed it to have a folding trigger and no trigger guard, thus keeping the profile of the gun slim and snag-less. 48 round box. on Sep 21, 2019 Login Back. The value of a Velodog revolver depends on its condition, age, and whether or not it is complete and original. For bullets I pulled the 29gr. Developed in the late 19th century by French-Belgian Gunmakers Galand the Velo-Dog revolvers were aimed at the burgeoning cyclist market. MANUFACTURE 1900 TO EARLY TEENS. Remington's Nylon 66 semi-automatic .22 LR rifles have grown from 1950s bargain buys to 21st century collectors darlings. The Manufacturer cannot be found, but this weapon is known as the Velo-Dog, originally created in the late 19th century as a defense for cyclists against dog . Firearms dont get much more iconic than John Moses Brownings legendary Auto-5 semi-auto shotgun, affectionately called the Humpback for its distinctive drop at the rear of the receiver. Charles-Franois Galand (1832-1900) was a French gunsmith who worked in Lige, Belgium, and Paris, France.He manufactured many revolvers for civilian and military use, including the Galand Revolver (also called the Galand-Sommerville or Galand-Perrin), the Tue Tue, and the tiny Le Novo.The Velo-dog, developed from the Tue Tue and the Novo, was designed by Charles-Franois' son Ren in 1904. Velo-Dog pistols were initially chambered a proprietary 5.5mm Velo-Dog cartridge but later they appeared in a number of small calibres including .22 rimfire and .25ACP calibres. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. RNL bullets from some .22 Short cartridges, and simply pressed them into the cartridge with my thumb until they were firmly in place. See Sold Price. Second generation velo dogs, and surely third generation designs, may have been only cousins of the original but might still be included in the extended velo dog family. Galand designed a centerfire round about the length of a .38 Special but with a 45-grain .22-caliber bullet and a light, often black powder, charge. As Mr. Hall has noted, you have a Belgian Velo-Dog revolver. Please contact the developer of this form processor to improve this message. Col. The original guns used the proprietary 5.5mm Velo-Dog cartridge was basically a centerfire .22LR that was slightly less powerful than the 22LR. Reloading kit for pinfire cartridges The ammunition for these guns is no longer in production, though you might find a specialty maker producing limited quantities to order for a princely price. Smith & Wesson's version was a 2-inch iteration of its hammerless model. Then an even smaller design, the Le Novo revolver soon appeared. The scallop type cylinder flutes are a fingerprint of Belgian revolvers- and somewhere on the rear of the cylinder is likely a Belgian proof mark, similar to these: What we have here is failure- to communicate. Rare Velo Dog .25 cal revolver Description: Velo Dog with Browning stamped on top of the strap, and this tiny revolver made at the tuen of the century measures less the 5" long and comes with it's soft pig-skinned leather holster. Chambered in a centerfire round very close in performance to the .22LR. The result was the tiny 5.5mm Velo Dog. By 1895 an even smaller Galand revolver was born, specifically to counter the four-legged threat to cyclists, which was named the Velo Dog. You must log in or register to reply here. (7mm & 9mm) K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. Good old Col Charlie was always looking for an edge, so he had a Woodsman converted to centerfire and shortened Velo Dog brass to LR length. It's for sale at a small antique shop. Initially, the term was probably applied exclusively to the revolvers chambered for that specific round. If you have some tools and are a handy sort you can make your own from .25 ACP cartridges and 1/4 brass tube. The Velo-Dog (also known as a Revolver de Poche[1]) was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Ren Galand, son of Charles-Franois Galand in the late 19th-century as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks. Note that concealed carriers often loaded these cartridges with cayenne pepper or a hopefully less-lethal cork or wax bullet. This is the gun that was the forefather of the Luger pistol. Sharpe has 4.7 grs of Unique driving a 45-gr bullet at 1955 fps with a pressure of 34000 psi in the Hornet. Join Date: October 26, 2005. Because of their high value, many fakes have been made over . The Galand arms firm was akin to the Colt revolver works in the 19th century, except that it was in Paris. They were christened Velo-Dog revolvers, sometimes also called Revolver de Poche (Poche apparently meaning pocket, not pooch.) Some argue that the dog part of Velo-Dog references bulldog-style revolvers, but the similarity escapes me. Today, the Velo-Dog term is used for a broad assortment of Euro pocket revolvers in various calibers by diverse (and often anonymous) makers, probably because no one can think of what else to call them. Cobblestone streets gave such a hard ride that early bicycles were nicknamed boneshakers. As the buyer, you should be aware of possible: . The Price for a Galand Velo-Dog Revolver has increased in cost by $0.00 in 2023 compared to 2022. The Smith & Wesson .38 Safety Hammerless "Bicycle Gun" with a 1.5-inch barrel offered in the May 2019 Premier Gun Auction is one of those rare bonafide revolvers. SOLD - $485.00. The server responded with {{status_text}} (code {{status_code}}). Today, the Velo-Dog term is used for a broad assortment of Euro pocket revolvers in various calibers by diverse (and often anonymous) makers, probably because no one can think of what else to call them. Bore and Action excellent. It shows contempt for the subject and does not require critical thinking. This would be a pipe bomb load in a small, cheap revolver from the late 1800's and early 1900's. Thanks to the 6,35 mm Browning cartridges used in the revolver (0.25 ACP), the drum is short and does not look at all like the typical elongated bicycle codes. In 2022 a new or used Galand Velo-Dog Revolver value varies depending on supply and demand. Ulysses S. Grant's personal set of ornately decorated Remington New Model Army revolvers sold for $5,170,000 by Rock Island Auction. 3. European Revolvers After your reduced a section in front of the rim you can cut it off, leaving a rimmed section that will hold a small-pistol primer. The 5.5mm Velo-Dog originated in France in 1894. Sect.7 Licence applies or Deactivation Cert issued. Cut a 3/16 long section of silver-bearing plumbing solder into the tube and push it to the bottom rimmed section with a rod, then heat the area with a torch until the solder flows and then allow to cool. Stay in the know. The Velo-Dog seems to have slotted neatly between these two; easier to conceal than the .320 revolvers, but enough larger than the puppies to make it easier to handle, and significantly more powerful as well. . However, my correction was taken down the next day and the post was returned to the original. [2] The name is a compound word composed of "velocipede" and "dog". has lever type safety on left side. Hi folks, I've found what appears to be a late 1800's blank firing Postmans dog scarer pistol. Although this huge catalogue has three pages of various Velo Dog revolvers for sale this is the only Velo-Dog cartridge listed. The trigger pull is short and smooth but very stiff. Very Good $ 0000. Once widely made by Kynoch, Remington and others, it was most recently produced by Fiocchi and one can sometimes come across a box of this with prices ranging from steep to outrageous. Another option is buying brass for .22 CCM (Cooper Centerfire Magnum) which often fits 5.5mm VD chambered guns and loading it to replicate the original Velo-Dog loads. Mainly they retained the loading and unloading mechanism that consisted of a hollow cylinder pin with an ejector-rod running down the center of it and a loading-gate on the right side of the frame. SEND EMAIL ADDRESS FOR ADDITIONAL PHOTOS. They all have one or more of three specific features concealed hammer, folding spur-trigger, and manual safety. I hope they had some rat shot rounds. Another feature on many late models Velo-Dogs is the lack of a trigger guard, and a trigger that folds into the body of the weapon when not in use. When up . http://www.guns.com/2012/10/11/velo-dog-revolver/, https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/the-velo-dog/23400, The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Belgian and Spanish guns also frequently had a manual safety that prevented the trigger from moving. Would you know what it would be worth? Cal. Why do people do this? The top strap is marked "Randf: Cal: 22-230, Syst: Hammerless". For sure, first generation velo dogs were 5.5 or what was often called 5.7 or 6mm velo dog charges. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. Ignoring the complaint about wiki, let's look at Velo Dogs. Velo-Dog revolver by Jaques Mussen-Lallamand probably. Soit all comes down to how technical we want to be. Excellent - 95%+ condition with or without box. During this time, Smith & Wesson and other gun firms began marketing short-barrel versions of their hammerless revolvers as bicycle guns. Before this, most of these pocket revolvers had a barrel in the 3- to 4-inch range. Circa: Using The Marks Of Proof On This Gun, Crown,Crown,U, Proof Hose, E. German, Suhl, Type Of Proof And Gun, Inspection Mark, Circa, Since 1950. Estimate: $250 - $350 The Nagant revolvers Click here to download Downloadable E-book Manufactured from 1904 to 1914. The name is a portmanteau of "velocipede" and "dog". Even though the server responded OK, it is possible the submission was not processed. The lack of accuracy was not an issue with the gun, despite the aforementioned stiff trigger and miserable sights. These revolvers are known as "Velo-Dog" revolvers, from the French "velocipede", for "bicycle" (these small pocket . The overall condition is good with rust on the frame & barrel and cracked on the right grip. They even had their own cartridge the 5.5mm Velo-Dog (also variously called the 5.6, 5.75, 5.8, or 6mm Velo-Dog). Bullets would then be loaded one at a time as the cylinder was rotated. Most of the small revolvers they produced were Baby Bulldogs, small versions of the British bulldog style revolvers in .320 Revolver, or Puppies chambered in .22 Short. Guns Pistols Antique Pre Pistols Ctg. Poor - under 30% condition. Blade front sight. On page 176 of the 1911 ALFA catalogue of Adolf Frank Export Gesellschaft, Hamburg, the round is listed as the 5.75 Velo Dog in the section of the catalogue devoted to revolver ammunition p.176. Very Good - 90% - 95% condition (all parts/finish should be original). Belgian Velo-Dog Double Action Revolver Serial no undet. Appears to work fine with safety on the left frame. The Velo Dog design proved so popular with consumers that the design was eventually scaled up to chamber both .25 and .32 (7.65mm) auto cartridges for defense against two-legged assailants. Product lines ran from copies of firearms by established manufacturers including Smith & Wesson, to derringers and pepperbox pistols, small spur-trigger and folding-trigger pocket revolvers and "Velo Dog" pistols. This load dimpled the chickens and pigs. 2.14K subscribers Velo Dog Postman Pistols or Flobert Pistols These small Pistols were made over a hundred years ago in Belgium and France or Germany in the late 1800's. They are blank. The Manufrance models, marked Manufacture Francaise DArmes & Cycles de St-Etienne are by far the most common and tend to go for about $200 in complete condition. Overall, this Velo-Dog is in fair vintage condition with normal age-related finish wear on the barrel, cylinder, and frame. Grey patina on the cylinder and barrel. Homemade Smith And Methson Firearm Unlikely To Catch On With Wyoming Crooks. Colt Baby Open Top .22 cal Revolver. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Many of the weapons have a trigger that folds into the body of the weapon when not in use. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. The 19th century was one of industrial revolution and wonder. 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Belgian Vest Pocket Revolver + Traveling Case, Pirlot Freres Belgian Military Double Action Revolver. GABILONDO Y URRESTI > Velo-Dog Revolver. Velo-Dog revolvers came in all levels of finish, from sometimes crude offerings from Eibar to fancy nickle-plated and engraved examples such as this one. Up Next we have a British Velo Dog Revolver Chambered in .32 It is a 5 Shot Revolver with a Folding Trigger, and a 1 . You are using an out of date browser. The 5.5mm Velo-Dog also has a case length of 1.12 in" (28.45mm) and an overall length of 1.35 in" (34.29mm). There are traces of blue on the ejector rod and spring and traces of case hardening on the frame. The theory was that with the increasing popularity of cycling (especially among women) and with cyclists venturing into the countryside they would need a small pistol which was not too heavy but was capable of protecting them against wild animals and rabid dogs. A .32 or .38 lead pill struck the marketers as the perfect prescription for persistent petulant pups. Save Share. For comparison todays NAA mini-revolvers are 4-inches overall with a 1.12-inch barrel. These vehicles scared horses, children, and dogs. The cartridge was comparable in power to .22 LR loads of the time, but was substantially longer, with a brass case 1.12 long. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Jim Supica is a contributor to Gun Digest. Folks who don't know and don't care to know lump things together. Auction ends Sunday, Sept. 15th. However, Im unsure on caliber, it could also be chambered in something else, however the majority of Velo-Dog revolvers Ive encountered were 25 ACP. Lot 3350: Smith & Wesson .38 Safety Hammerless 5th Model Double Action Revolver with Ultra Rare 1 1/2 "Bicycle" Length Barrel and Factory Letter. 5.5 Velo Dog. Checkered hard rubber grips are Such production methods were common in small-scale or 'cottage industry'. Sold. As the name suggests, a velo-dog revolver was designed to protect velocipedists against dogs when out for a ride. It was one of the smallest revolvers ever placed into production, at just over 5-inch long with a 1.5-inch barrel. The 5.5mm Velo-Dog (AKA: 5.75mm Velo Dog) is a Center Fire cartridge with a Bullet Diameter of 0.225 in" (5.72mm) that is primarily used in Pistols. Most of the other brand of clones are unmarked save for the occasional serial number and go for $100 or less. The left frame is marked with the letters "F A" over a star over a cresent moon which may be Turkish. The name is a portmanteau of "velocipede" and "dog". The Le Novo was an open-framed revolver with an enclosed hammer and folding grip making it extremely compact and very concealable. To view additional photographs at a higher quality, Please . Senior Member . A lot of special interest groups with money post and bombard the social media waves with half truths or out right lies and unless you are an intelligent individual and can think for yourself than you won't buy into everything that is on the internet. However, I'm unsure on caliber, it could also be chambered in something else, however the majority of Velo-Dog revolvers I've encountered were 25 ACP. The ejector pin would be drawn forward, then pivoted to the side to allow empty cases to be pushed out when the loading gate was opened. All Rights Reserved. The name "Velo-dog" comes from the portmanteau of the words "Velocipede" (an early type of bicycle) and "dog" which alludes to the fact that the Velo-dog was designed to protect cyclists from wild. The Velo-Dog (also known as a Revolver de Poche) was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Ren Galand, son of Charles-Franois Galand in the late 19th century as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks. This is a Velo Dog folding trigger revolver. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Mechanism needs repair or adjustment. S# 40. The gun locks up properly, and everything works as it should. Semi-smokeless proof for all guns in use since 1904. Given the library of excess trivial gun data I have accumulated I decided to do something about a post on Wikipedia. Fine Belgian Velo Dog Double Action Revolver 7mm, 5-shot, 1 1/2-inch round barrel with flat top; hammerless double action with folding trigger; blued, with case-hardened frame and checkered ebony grips. Bicycle Gun: The Doggone History Of These Pocket Pistols, 1791 Gunleather Introduces Optic Ready Holster Options, Double-Action vs. Single-Action Revolvers, 5 Best AR-10 Options You Can Actually Afford (2023), Colt Single Action Army Clones And Replicas Vs. Originals, Best .380 Pistol Options For Deep Carry (2023). (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Welcome to Historical Firearms, a site that looks at the history, development and use of firearms, as well as wider military history. Make sure the ignition-hole is clear, drilling with a 1/16 drill if needed, and cut the tube to produce a cartridge 1.12 long including the rim. It is 4-1/2" overall with a 1-3/4" barrel. If you have the time you can open all the files on the littlegun sight. Following, Someday I will hit a gong at a mile.. 9mil, ------------------------------------------------, There are 2 number 1s stamped to a bullet hole and no marks under the handle. It appears to be a 25 ACP Velo-Dog Revolver. He shot it in NRA Centerfire in lieu of the usual .38 revolver Rules were promptly changed to require at least .32 cal in the future. Good $ 0000. Scads of these type of guns were made, often with no markings beyond the legally-required proofs, making them difficult to research today. In all other senses, the guns remained the same. 5.5mm Velo-Dog revolver (W&M) 5.6mm x 34R Francotte Carbine (D) 5.6mm x 33 Rook (B) 6mm Beaumont revolver (W&M) 6mm Merveilleux (W&M) 6mm Protector (W&M) 6mm Lee Navy (Hu) The revolver has a 1.5" barrel a. on Jan 12, 2019. . The Velo-Dog was designed to be used in defence against wild dog attacks when the user . velo dog pistol value. looks like a velo dog style gun, nice find! Description. Some of the advertisements of the era made one purpose explicit. International shipping - items may be subject to customs processing depending on the item's customs value. The revolver was fixed framed and the cylinder was loaded and unloaded via a rear flip-down gate. The owner, manager, and primary engineer, Charles-Franois Galand, designed several innovative and popular revolvers for military and civilian defense purposes. The original load used a 43gr. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. A 6.35mm double-action revolver with 1.5" barrel, folding trigger and concealed hammer. Get the 76th edition of the World's Greatest Gun Book. I dont have reloading dies for this caliber yet, and since I was firing an unfamiliar antique gun I opted to make a Gallery Load. I inserted magnum small pistol primers (I havent been able to get the regular ones for many months now) and tapped them into place with a wooden dowel. There was no shortage of small revolvers available at the time; most countries produced them, particularly Belgium, where they never met a patent they didnt want to violate. These bite-sized snoopy snipers, often called Revolver de Poche in French speaking countries, are one of the best deals in the collectable gun market today. Indeed, packs of feral dogs seem to have been a real problem in Paris and its environs, and for some reason bicycles in particular excited their chase reflex. The Velo-Dog (also known as a Revolver de Poche) was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Ren Galand, son of Charles-Franois Galand in the late 19th century as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks. However, it wasn't until the 1880s and 1890s that the pedal-chain rear-wheel drive safety bicycle velocipede found favor as an efficient form of personal transportation for the general public, with the advantage that you didn't have to feed it hay and oats. For the more humane, there were cartridges loaded with cayenne pepper or dust,[4] or which had bullets made from wax, wood or cork. Serial #. Surviving examples vary considerably in appearance, but have certain features in common. Single diamond checkered wood grips. Oct 14, 2011. His son Rene registered the 'Velo Dog' trademark in Liege 1904. ), Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Pistols (flint), Muzzleloading Modern & Replica Pistols (perc), United States Patent Firearms Revolvers/Pistols, Century Arms International (CAI) - Shotguns. The Velo-dog Revolver was a French pocket revolver, designed by Charles-Francois Galand in 1894. See Sold Price. Surviving examples vary considerably in appearance, but have certain features in common.All have short barrels and originally . Liberalism is a mental disorder and it's chief symptoms are rampant hypocrisy and projection. It uses what looks like shotgun primers to function. . {{#message}}{{{message}}}{{/message}}{{^message}}Your submission failed. If you like what you see here, please consider clicking the link above and supporting me on Patreon. I'd say the guy on the Gun Values board gave you the right range to expect. That revolver cylinder is much too short to take the Velo-Dog round."</I></blockquote> MK S Savage99Stan Registered Joined Dec 27, 2007 2,262 Posts

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