what if saruman had gotten the ring

Saruman wasnt an elf, or even a man. See Palantr Wikipedia . When Gandalf returned and revealed himself to Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn he said something to the effect of "in a way I'm now Saruman, but you can keep calling me Gandalf." The chapter is a partly published version of a manuscript now held at the Marquette University (MSS 4/2/31-37); [1] other parts of this manuscript and a time scheme have been included in The . Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. Saruman later describes himself as "Ring-maker" when taunting Gandalf. Saruman had decided to abandon his mission as an Istari and join Sauron in subjugating Middle-earth. Telchar, an uber Dwarven smith who lived in the first age, forged Narsil. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. (Letter 246). I imagine it'd be a similar situation as if Gandalf or Saruman got The Ring. The free people of Middle-earth had possession of Sauron's One Ring, but that was only a minor Read more on cbr.com. In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, The Silmarillion as far as the quoted material here goes). When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. Lots of great, exclusive content, even discounts on our original merch! He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey. It would be difficult for Sauron. *shrugs*. If Im not mistaken, he is Vanyar? Sauron is the primary villain of The Lord Of The Rings. He starts on a similar path as Gandalf, but his choices and hunger for power lead him to evil. By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. But if Eomer hadn't disobeyed orders? In the case of vague powers the One Ring would enhance one's powers based on one's strengths. But if only one Istar has come to Middle-earth so far, Saruman is a strong candidate. Maybe, though i dont know that much about Sauman's power and. The Lord of the Rings; Middle-Earth (Franchise) entertainment news Gandalf was going to announce that Sauron had found the Ring. When the good wizard Saruman uses one to spy on the peoples of Middle-earth, he is drawn in by its power and ensnared by . Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. He caught up with the orcs and destroyed them in the early hours of the 29th. Well Gandalf and Galadriel were pretty confident in their ability to defeat Sauron using One Ring! You must log in or register to reply here. Keep in mind the Ring doesn't only have Sauron's power in it. He would have been able to control more people, and he would have had a much easier time dominating their wills. Who controlled the Seeing Stone of Minas Anor? It's a good question. After that, in the Undying Lands, Sauron was more powerful. Plus, if the Stranger is Saruman, it also makes Gandalfs journey and decisions all the more important and emphasizes an ongoing theme in Tolkiens works: every being has the power to choose between good and evil, or selflessness vs. selfishness. He would have also learned where the Fellowship was broken and knowing the Ringbearer's true purpose would assume his destination would be the Black Gate which indeed it was until Gollum convinced Frodo otherwise. https://www.teespring.com/stores/historyoftheagesAlso here are our other social media links too! Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. Because the One Ring was the master to all . He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. Sauron then spends the rest of his life torturing Saruman for daring to try and take the ring for himself. The Vanyar were one of the tribes/families of the elves. Despite an erratic and feeble end, for long he was one of the wise, and for long desired the ring; he could not possibly have failed to consider Sauron's response. Saruman joined Sauron only partially. Although this is never explicitly stated, Galadriel alluded to the Fact that Gandalf, . Virginia. We dont know any details about his activities in Rhn or his other easterly travels. We dont know if the Stranger will make it to his destination and the show could certainly deviate from lore or invent new history ( as it has done already). Five wizards came to Middle-earth, so the Stranger could be any of them. **Chief among the powers of the ring that were feared by the White Council was the fact that if Sauron put it on now, all that had been done by the Wise using the three rings would be revealed to him, as would their minds, if they did not take off the rings. She seems to have seriously pondered what she might do if she got hold of the Ring, and she was only an Elf, not a Maiar like Saruman. Saruman is my favorite figure of all time . Saruman is one of few "grey" characters in the books, meaning he's neither gone fully evil or good. Much of Sarumans history in the Second Age is mysterious. In Middle-earth history, it seems likely Saruman arrived before Gandalf did. In the chapter "the White Rider" (LOTR Book 3, chapter 5), shortly after Ugluk's foray has been defeated, Gandalf gives a detailed analysis of Saruman's motives and Sauron's concerns. Saruman knew good and well what would happen when he tried holding Gandalf. Saruman volunteered. It was never explained how, but the Elves found a way to block Saurons sight from their Rings. Why are trials on "Law & Order" in the New York Supreme Court? If a law is new but its interpretation is vague, can the courts directly ask the drafters the intent and official interpretation of their law? Answer (1 of 3): In short: nobody else could use it against him. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. Gandalf wasn't even sure if he would be able to break his staff in The Return of the King, and that was a very weakened version of Saruman. But what would have happened if things had worked out differently? Opens in new tab Opens in new tab Opens in new tab. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Again Aragorn refuses it, apparently without any internal struggle whatsoever. He disobeyed his king but he held his loyalty to his people and by doing so he inadvertently saved Middle-Earth. If he followed the strategy I've mentioned, his fighters would have to deal with the feisty Rohirrim, and would also run the risk of a flank attack from Gondor, before they could even get near Isengard. 2 What would happen if Gandalf had the ring? The one, and the nine created fearful dominance, fraught with majesty, and terror. Forces from Mordor and Rhun would have been sent to fight their way through Rohan, leaving Minas Tirith undefeated to the south. Earlier in the same letter we see just exactly how useful the Ring would have been to a hypothetical Ring-bearing Saruman (or anyone else, for that matter): Sauron would not have feared the Ring! Letter 246 describes a hypothetical confrontation between a hypothetical Ring-bearing Gandalf and Sauron: Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. She's an Elf, So Has a Very Long Lifespan. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, Saruman has become jealous of Sauron's power (and Gandalf's too). Obviously, the Uruk-hai didn't make it back to Isengard, and they didn't have the Ring anyway. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. So it's possible that someone of sufficient power could break the Rings bond to Sauron. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. For these reasons, Tolkien tells us, the Nazgul (powerful though they were) would have hesitated to attack Frodo directly, after Frodo finally claimed the Ring for his own. So all of the vanilla staves will get a retexture that adds a new color depending on their enchantment. I don't think it would have made Saruman invincible, and, after all, he still would still have had to contend for instance with Treebeard and the Ents, as well as with Sauron. The Silmarillion says, In the likeness of men they appeared, old but vigorous. Only Crdan the Shipwright knew Sarumans identity. The thing is, it's worth wondering what would have happened if Frodo had failed. One can imagine 4 What if Saruman had never been corrupted? Saruman probably would have become the dominant power in Middle Earth and turned it into a pretty crappy place to live. LEGO did such a great job with the printing on the figures! *Originally posted by Triskadecamus * As was made quite clear at the Council of Elrond, as long as the Ring existed Sauron could not fully be destroyed. Saruman remained in the East for hundreds of years, only returning to the West when Saurons power started to grow. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. Although he never appears directly in the books and is only shown in the movies in a flashback to the War of the Last Alliance, his corruptive influence is felt nearly everywhere in Middle-Earth. Hes lost his way in a search for greater power. As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. He easily would have had mastery over the ring itself. The implication is that Saruman has to defeat Sauron. We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Latest Blog Post: Jacks Bad Movies Black Adam (2022). His Spirit would continue in some astral realm, and would use His real weapon: TIME. Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. There would have been no need to send an army; this would have been a one-on-one contest in Orthanc. The heroes in The Lord of the Rings did everything to keep the One Ring away from Sauron, but what would have happened if Saruman had gotten it? Without Gandalf, King Theoden would likely remain under the control of Saruman. I think the real point has been missed. If we have not credited an artist, it is because we could not find an owner of the art. The Lord of the Rings doesnt have plot holes. He and Nori leave for the land in the east at the end of The Rings of Power season one finale. Rather, Saruman would have had to dominate Sauron's will and essentially kick him out of the Ring. To a lesser degree Faramir's disobedience also saved the Quest. It's possible Saruman would have been able to defeat Sauron. But what was the purpose of the three? I know Letter 246 says Sauron himself did not fear the Ring, would not have hesitated to confront a Ring-wielding Frodo, and could easily have forced Frodo to hand the Ring over. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner.In the event I use art of yours or you have any questions, please contact me and we'll get it sorted straight away! All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. Who is more popular Leonardo DiCaprio or Tom Cruise? Gil Galad, and the last alliance also defeated Sauron, without the help of the Maiar, as well. Seem's strange when the ring's main purpose was to rule over the rings/leaders? That makes Gandalf more or less like we know him from The Lord of the Rings, thousands of years in the future. In the appendices it mentions the three assaults on Lorien, during the final days of the struggle. Cookie Notice We'll pick u. The villain created The One Ring, where he put most of his power. It has been suggested that the reason why Saruman lost access to magic after the . After that there is no other mention of Aragorn and the Ring together. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. If the Stranger is actually Gandalf, think about it from a character development standpoint. Like the Valar He was created in the Beginning. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. The Uruk-hai capture Frodo and Sam at Amon Hen, thus Saruman gains possession of the most powerful of the Rings of Power, which carries in it, a greater part of Sauron's inherent might. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? He aided Frodo but he did not save him or the Quest from certain ruin as Eomer did by attacking the orc band. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? . What would have happened if the Balrog of Moria had taken possession of The One Ring? Rohan would've fallen to Saruman and wouldn't have been able to come to the aid of Gondor and helped make the final stand against the forces of Mordor at the Black Gate. Functional cookies help to perform certain functionalities like sharing the content of the website on social media platforms, collect feedbacks, and other third-party features. These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. A Saruman prequel, an Aragorn spin-off and a Gandalf v the Necromancer thriller could all lead up to the fateful hunt of Gollum and the events immediately preceding the Lord of the Rings (with . The Palantri. He could turn invisible and go slowly crazy, which seem to be the width of the one ring's powers. He reasoned that his total control of Middle . Since the One Ring is a part of Sauron it could only ever reach its full power under Sauron's control. But Saruman was always too prideful for his companions. Whats the threshold of power for a wielder of the one ring to defeat Sauron? The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. Tolkien Blog - by Michael Martinez Saruman's power is that of influence, both in a political sense of his influence as the highest member of the council, but also in the sense of being able to have some control over other people . What happens next would depend on Sauron himself; whether he would seek to retake the Ring immediately; whether he would visit Saruman himself or send a lesser servant. When Sauron was in Dol Guldur, he lay dormant most of the time. It allowed him to recover multiple times after his physical body got destroyed. What If SARUMAN managed to get his hands on the One Ring and how that . RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. My understanding of the crushingly unavoidable fate which is the history of Middle Earth says that the One Ring belongs to Sauron and no other. Hes of the same order of beings as Sauron, so he certainly has enough power to effectively use the ring. In this scenario, Sauron likely would have recovered his Ring and covered all the lands in a second darkness. When the Valar realized Sauron had returned, they sent the Istari to help the peoples of Middle-earth. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Any idea what set any of these are from? Just like when Sauron, arguably the most powerful 'mage' of that time, did during the last alliance the one where he lost due to a mere human? The first thing you need to realize is just how long a gap there was between the two trilogies. The stone had a green/purple coloring. Orcs are poster children for corruption, and plague the Fellowship throughout the novels. Why does Gollum calling the ring his own not alert Sauron? He'd have used his bird spies to scour the area and sent out Uruks on wargs and men on horses. Fury of the Gods Special: Shazamily Matters, A Lord of the Rings Theory Hints Tom Bombadil Was in the Movies All Along, 10 Sci-Fi Films That Bombed At The Box Office But Became Cult Classics. Furthermore, Saruman knows more about ring-lore than any other being in Middle Earth at the time, save only Sauron himself, and he had already made himself a minor ring, so he would learn how to use it quickly. Sauron was much the stronger, but a lot of his power is in the ring. What money is available for senior citizens? As Sauron once was, Saruman, a Maia of Aule, became absorbed in Ring-lore as he studied Sauron's evil works. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? It would have been the master in the end. A couple of points to add to the excellent arguments thus far: This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. You are using an out of date browser. Which routine is best for gaining muscle? It basically lets them look unique according to their enchantment. New Movie News, Movie Trailers & upcoming Movie Reviews, Saruman Gaining the One Ring Would Have Doomed Middle-earth Even Faster, Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil, How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons, REVIEW: Frank Miller Presents Ancient Enemies: The Djinni #1 Crafts a Compelling Origin Story, REVIEW: DC's Shazam! It seems it was a mistake for the Ring to leave Isildur. Keep Your Powder Dry: Firearms for 5E Fantasy CampaignsNearly 40 firearms with customization options for 5E games, plus magic items, feats for gunslingers, and the alchemist character class! But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? Thus, while Gandalf taking the One Ring would have expediated the destruction of Sauron, it also would have hasted the subjugation of Middle-earth. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. It wasn't really a surprise. The Three were used against Sauron, but indirectly. Ap. Two Blue Wizards went with Saruman into the East. The power they have is to give stature to the wearer in the minds of others, and to enhance the emotional strength of the wearer, in the manner desired by their maker. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LEGO The Lord of the Rings Tower of Orthanc (10237) at the best online prices at eBay! Did Aragorn ever offer the ring to Frodo? By this Tolkien shows that disobedience for good reasons has merit. I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. You must log in or register to reply here. Naruto turned, and saw a Wizard in all white and an Elven Lady behind him. Mostly, though, he most enjoys writing about Star Wars. Still it was a meritorious disobedience and worthy of praise. Both the direct and symbolic aspects could have helped Saruman expand his empire by winning adherents and frightening potential opponents. I mean, he was supposed to be powerful ANYWAY was he not? When the White Council was formed around T.A. Now, consider Saruman. The eagles cant carry the Fellowship to Mordor because Gandalf cant simply summon a squadron of birds to divebomb Mount Doom. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. They were basically the teachers pet ones who lived closest to the Valar and did not trouble themselves (except once) with the problems of Middle-Earth. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. Is Bosnia a developing or developed country? This is the real reason the eagles question will never die: Its too appetizing for The Lord of the Rings fans. He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. That is, however, a legitimate concern when entering any fight: any weaponry you wield may be captured and used against you. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. What happens next? If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. His actions were more indirect as his decision was of non-action in not taking Frodo to Minas Tirith. We look at sections of The Lord of the Rings and Tolkien's letters to answer the question - what would happen if Sauron reclaimed The One Ring? Please message us if we have not credited you! Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. I don't think we've been given enough information to say whether Saruman or Sauron would have won the fight. Whether he judged correctly is another matter, but I would expect it to be a contest. The Eye of Sauron is one of the most iconic symbols associated with J.R.R. And hes got a considerable stronghold and force of arms with which to hold off Saurons forces until he can learn to use it. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. The Great Eye also features heavily in Peter Jacksons blockbuster big-screen adaptations, an ever-watchful flaming orb atop a massive stone obelisk. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf the Grey, but . They sang in the Music or the Ainur and were commanders of Morgoth's armies. By the time that happened, little would be left but the ruins of the world in the aftermath of Saurons great war to regain the ring. His own greed and lust for power turned him to darkness on his own, and Sauron through the Palantir had already turned Saruman into his tool - though Saruman was of no use to Sauron at all once defeated. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. When it comes to the Stranger, played by Daniel Weyman, we learned he is one of the Istari, but we did not learn his actual name. Let's first look at what would happen if Saruman succeeded, and then at his strategy for defeating Sauron. Even though Frodo had a 4-5 day head-start further east and would be entering the Dead Marshes on March 1st, Saruman would also have had a head-start on everyone else in terms of knowledge and certainty. Rings of Power (and a touch of Wheel of Time), Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. Courage to ones fellows, hope in adversity, and comfort to the suffering were the powers enhanced by the three. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Ultimately, we dont know who the Stranger is, aside from being an Istar, or a wizard. Saruman had full control of his army, which is why the Hobbits were being brought to him (because they maybe had the ring), instead of immediately to Sauron (who at the time of their capture, they were much closer to). We don't know enough about the powers of the Ring, in the hands of an ambitious wizard how it might have worked as a "devastating weapon" (Letter 246), how, as a symbol, it might in Saruman's hands have affected Sauron's servants and vassals. He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? But what does Saruman do now? Eomer had no clue about rings and quests. He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . Of course, Saruman was shocked to hear about the One Ring but wasn't going to help Gandalf conceal it because he had already chosen a new course of action. When given the opportunity It would betray Its wearer, and find Its way back to Its Master. Then Sauron would have had the ring again and either he'd keep Saruman as a servant or just get rid of him for trying to be his equal. After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. This mod, although it doesn't add a new staff to the game, creates a unique design for all of the Skyrim staves. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, A THE LORD OF THE RINGS Musical Heads to the UK Stage, LOTR: RETURN OF THE KING Returning to Theaters for 20th Anniversary, 5 Middle-earth Stories the New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies Should Tell, Go On a Journey with THE LORD OF THE RINGS ADVENTURE BOOK GAME, New LORD OF THE RINGS Movies in the Works (Yes, Really), MAGIC: THE GATHERING Headsto Middle-earth with LORD OF THE RINGS Set, Send Sauron a Letter with LOTR Black Speech Keyboard. You are using an out of date browser. Does he use his great voice, enhanced by the One to subjugate the free peoples. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? and our However, Gandalf knew that if he being an extremely powerful Maiar just like Sauron had taken the One Ring, he would become no different than the Dark Lord. IIRC the idea of Galadriel taking it scared the bejeezus out of him. You have different tier options between $2 - $250, which can get you everything from exclusive access to upcoming videos, shoutouts, discounts, access to original artwork, producer credits on productions etc. Had Isuldur done the wise thing, and pitched that sucker in the crack of doom, that would have been it. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Sauron would then have suspended his campaign against Minas Tirith, and instead sent his armies north-west, through Rohan towards Isengard. Sauron was the Dark Lord in The Lord of the Rings saga, written by J.R.R. Tolkien. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. Would he have given the Ring back to Sauron or would he have kept the ring and contested Sauron for power over Middle-earth? The White Wizard truly believed that he could resist both the dark lord's power and then, when in possession of it, the lure of the Ring of Power. The question of what Saruman would have done therefore becomes moot since it seems inevitable that Sauron would have been the stronger. Posted September 4, 2007. mysticalblues said: My roommate met someone last week that had a ring that she got in St. Thomas. I'm no Tolkien expert but I assume there would have been a great war between Isengard and Mordor, which would have affected all parts of Middle Earth. I never really understood how they fit into the picture - I presume the nine gave to their bearers some ability, but ultimately corrupted them and turned them into the nazgul, which I guess was their purpose. And if the hearts of men were not so easily tainted, the Ringwraiths might never have been brought into being. Why Rings of Powers Fight Scenes Are Boring. By Luka Glavas / February 5, 2022. Around 500 years before The Lord of the Rings, the White Council was formed in Rivendell -- a group for Middle-earth's most powerful beings to discuss Sauron.Galadriel wanted Gandalf to take the head position, but Saruman insisted that he be in charge because of his status. There was a Winged Nazgul operating near the area as well on the other side of the Anduin and thus closer to Frodo. In the books it is mentioned several times that Sauron fears one of the uber good guys getting hold of the Ring. https://www.patreon.com/thebrokensword-----Also if you want to support in a different way then check out our Teespring page where we upload original designs for our merch!

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